The one I want to give an example to is, one that’s come up quite a bit recently is what is the difference between 9 7 1 1 0 and 9 7 5 3 0.

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Disclaimer: The following is an actual transcript. We do our best to make sure the transcript is as accurate as possible, however, it may contain spelling or grammatical errors. Due to the unique language of acupuncture, there will be errors, so we suggest you watch the video while reading the transcript.

Greetings, friends and colleagues. This is Sam Collins, your coding and billing expert for acupuncture. The Profession, acupuncture network of course, and the American Acupuncture Council here to always make sure you have the best and latest information. And one of the things I run into all the time in teaching seminars, but also acting as an expert, is trying to understand what are the differences between certain types of CPT codes.

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The one I want to give an example to is, one that’s come up quite a bit recently is what is the difference between 9 7 1 1 0? 9 7 5 3 0. So let’s go to the slides. Let’s talk about it. What are these two codes? 9, 7 1, 1 0 is exercise, therapeutic exercise 9 7 5 3 0 is therapeutic activities. What is the difference?

How do we understand that? I wanna make sure acupuncturists have a clear understanding, ’cause that certainly can be within scope. Let’s first get into, we have to always make sure we understand the codes well, to choose the right service. Based on the right code, based on the services we’re providing.

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So it says here per CPT that select the CPT code of the procedure or service that accurately identifies the procedure or service performed. Do not select a CPT code that merely approximated. So you can’t say it’s like it. Like I had someone that found out that hot packs aren’t payable by almost all insurances and haven’t been for quite some time.

So he said I’m going to bill hot packs. Infrared heat with the idea being, theoretically any warm body. Emits an infrared portion of the heat spectrum to some degree. That’s not really the intent. Certainly infrared heat is a little bit beyond just a hot pack. So again, we want to be careful of trying to twist things.

If it doesn’t fit exactly, make sure you’re using an unlisted code, which pretty much means it’s not gonna be paid, but use the code that best identifies it. Here we have to remember as an acupuncturist. Can you do more than just deliver acupuncture? Of course, your scope of practice often can be very broad, and I will say certainly look at your state.

If I teach in your state, certainly get a hold of me. We can work on that. Understanding what type of services you can do beyond obviously evaluations, but you’ll often see in your scope it’ll say adjunctive services. The adjunctive services often are very broad. It includes a lot of physical medicine services that might include heat, massage, exercise, and so on.

So do verify your scope. But generally all physical medicine services are generally within scope done with the idea of a traditional medicine slant to it. So let’s take a look specifically at two codes here today. 9 7 1 1 0. You’ll notice as a therapeutic procedure, one or more areas 15 minutes, which means it’s face-to-face time, just like acupuncture and therapeutic exercise Says therapeutic exercise is to develop strength and endurance, range of motion and flexibility.

Okay, so the standard things you do, if you told someone to go out and exercise, what would they think they’re going to improve? I think that’s what we’re seeing with that. Pretty generic, Qigong, if you will, but what about a therapeutic activity? Now you’ll notice the one in the bottom, 9, 7, 5, 3 0 says therapeutic activities, direct one-on-one patient contact by the provider.

So that’s still the same, have to be there. But then it says, use of dynamic activities to improve functional performance. Therein is probably the biggest difference. Exercises generically just to increase strength, flexibility. Therapeutic activities are exercises, but specifically done to create a certain or specific functional outcome.

So 9 7 1 1 0 are movements and physical activities designed to restore function and flexibility. Okay, it. It includes instruction and feedback. So realize when you’re doing this face-to-face, it doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re staring at the person touching them, but you’re supervising, making sure they’re doing it properly, safely, maybe assisting them.

But it does require you be one-on-one. You cannot do exercise with two people at the same time. They can be doing that, but it wouldn’t be this code 9 7 1 1 0 is one-on-one. When you’re with a patient, maybe they’re doing yoga poses, maybe they’re doing tai chi or any type of exercise for strength, flexibility, endurance.

In fact, if you think of exercise generically, it fits almost everything we think of when you go to the gym. Bikes and treadmills, gym equipment, weight equipment, isometric, isotonic, isokinetic, but includes passive things like stretching. Might be assisting the person just in stretching.

So certainly any of that fits. Just make sure you’re documenting what exercises I. How much time you’re spending in doing it. So simple things like knee to chest stretching, maybe a low back rotational stretch, anything like that certainly fits. Notice. These are ones that you might be directing the patient to do.

Now this might be one we probably give them to do it more at home later, but certainly when they’re doing this in the office with you, that is absolutely a billable service. Now, what is the difference of 9, 7, 5, 3 0 exercise? I think we can see pretty easy and straightforward, however. 9 7 5 3 0 says one-on-one patient to improve functional performance.

So this involves functional activities, bending, reaching overhead activities with very specific outcomes to increase a function. So let’s say by example, you had a person that is a grocery store clerk and they hurt their wrist. When you strengthen that wrist, is it just to strengthen or is it to strengthen it to have specific tasks to allow them to do their job at the grocery store?

The same exercise that might be for someone just to strengthen the wrist generically, may be the same for the grocery clerk, but because you’re specifically liking to do a specific task, whether it’s going to be reaching in and out of a bag and lifting items, makes it more an activity. So always think of the outcome, realize all exercises.

Could be therapeutic activities. All therapeutic activities potentially could fit under exercise, depends on the why. So here’s the best way to think of it in choosing it. Look at all these pictures on the right. Could you say to me, oh, Sam, that one is exercise. This one’s a therapeutic activity. We cannot tell from the picture because choosing the code depends on the intent of the task.

So follow me here. If you’re doing abdominal curls, they certainly can be used to strengthen weak abdominal muscles and build as exercise. They come in their stomach muscles are weak. We’re doing abdominal curl strength in the stomach. Great. However, what if the patient is performing the abdominal corals specifically because their abdomen is so weak, they don’t have an ability to rise up from a lying down position or get out of a chair because the stomach is too weak.

Now all of a sudden. Those exercises, yes, they’re strengthening the stomach, but it’s there because we need an outcome that it’s there to perform. Getting in and out of a chair or lying down, that’s the activity and that’s why this is worth more. To give an example, 9 7 1 1 0 has a RVU of about 0.89.

Compared to 9 7 1 9 7 5 3 0, which is 1.15. So you’re gonna see that’s almost a 30% difference. It’s worth quite a bit more because this is designed specifically for that patient, something for them to do, not just generic for everyone. If everyone does the same thing, I’m gonna say, ah, that’s probably exercise.

But best practices determine what is the outcome expected from the task. Is it simply just to strengthen? Or is it a functional performance? When it becomes a functional performance, realize the higher value is you’re designing something specific for this patient’s needs. And I think when you think of most exercises, I think that’s what we do.

Now, obviously if everyone gets the same sheet, the same things, okay? But assuming we’re gonna have some nuanced differences, I think it’s far better to look to make sure we’re choosing the right one, because certainly one is worth quite a bit more. And I want you to be paid what you’re worth. Don’t be afraid to code what you’re doing so long as you document it properly, I will always support you.

That’s what we do at the American Acupuncture Council and the network. To differentiate things. Make sure you have the right resources. That’s what our network does. You’ve been to our seminars, but have you ever thought of, Hey, let’s have an expert on task. I could be part of that. Join our network. We’re with you one-on-one, and you get all our seminars free.

Till next time, my friends, I wish you the best.

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Click here to download the transcript.

Disclaimer: The following is an actual transcript. We do our best to make sure the transcript is as accurate as possible, however, it may contain spelling or grammatical errors. Due to the unique language of acupuncture, there will be errors, so we suggest you watch the video while reading the transcript.

Greetings, everyone. This is Sam Collins, the coding and billing expert for acupuncture for you, for the profession, for the American Acupuncture Council, and of course, for my AAC network members. Let’s talk about, have you really decided, how do I determine

Have you ever thought of what the costs are? As most acupuncturists, you’ve probably dealt mostly with cash and you’re charging one fee no matter what you’re doing. I want to start to do something that allows you to make more money in your practice by identifying your services and creating a true value to them.

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I can’t tell you how often I’ve had acupuncturists come to me and say, Charging a fee that is well below what people will accept. By example, if someone is willing to pay you 70 for a service, but you only charge 35, how much are they going to pay? 35 is what you charge. And I say this really from an insurance standpoint, because if an insurance is willing to pay you 70, but you only charge 30, they’re going to pay you 30.

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So have you ever really taken some time to look through your fee schedule to understand the value and what we’re going to focus in on what’s called relative value units. So let’s go to the slides. Let’s talk about that. Every single service. In CPT, any service you can provide as a licensed acupuncturist to a patient, that service has a value.

And that value is just to compare one service to another. By example, if one service has a value of 1 and another service has a value of 1. 5, It tells you the one that’s 1. 5 would be 50 percent higher than the other. So what I want you to do with this is start to really use just your fee for acupuncture.

If you tell me what you’re charging for your first set, I will tell you what the relative price should be for everything else you should do. And I’m going to implore my network members, in particular those that are viewing this, Make sure if you haven’t reached out to me this year to do so we can go through with you on a one on one Zoom on Establishing and understanding a fee schedule that’s specific to your area.

There isn’t generic across the United States It depends on your area. So I’d like to start this though with all of you taking a look at what is your current charge? Have you ever really thought what do I charge for stuff? I want you to write this down. What is your charge? For the first set, an additional set of acupuncture.

We’ll just choose manual for now. Keep it simple. What is your charge for a 99203? A simple mid level new patient exam. As well as 97124. Just simple massage. Nothing fancy. So acupuncture. mid level new patient exam and massage. How did you choose the fees? How do you know what one should be to another? What we’re going to focus in on is the relationship of one to the other.

Now, what we’re going to start with is what is your fee for 97810? Now you may think how do I come up with that? There’s things to do there. And again, network members can contact me about that, but I’m going to just keep it simple. What do you currently charge? If you tell me what you charge for a 97810, I will tell you what the other fees will be and what an insurance will pay.

Give me what an insurance pays for one code, and I’ll tell you what they’ll pay for any. Now I want to keep in mind, a lot of your managed care contracts don’t necessarily follow this. But, this is one of the reasons I don’t like managed care, but things that don’t. By example, workers comp, personal injury.

Even the VA follows this because I will tell you the VA and Medicare rates are much higher than what you would get from American Specialty Health in a lot of these. So I want something that’s going to make sense. So what this is about though is understanding the value of services. So on this page I’ve given some examples of the relative value units for common codes and you’ll see right in the middle I’ve included the acupuncture codes.

And you’ll notice 97810, 97811 all have relative values from one to the other. To make this the simplest way to think of it, if you charge 138 for the first set, I’m just making it an obvious example, what should be the cost of a second set? 80. Now you may think, wow, that’s a big, yeah, there is more than a 50 percent difference.

between the first set and the additional set. The first set includes more of the initial part of the visit, all the exam part. That’s why it’s a little bit more. And I’m going to warn everyone, this has gone up 20 percent this year. If you’re not aware, and you’ve probably seen it within the VA for those that are billing, there is a 20 percent increase in the relative value.

RVU’s updated substantially because I think they really looked at the cost. and value of acupuncture in relation to other services. So 97810 and 97813 both increased 20%. So if you have not increased your value of 97810, I’m going to let you know you’re losing money. Now, the value differences of 11 and 97814 did not change, but those two increased substantially.

By example, on a Medicare slash VA patient, That is literally 10 to $15 more per code. And remember that’s based on a $40 rate. The $40 rate for 9 8 9 4 0, which was fairly common, is now 50 plus in most areas. So start to look at that. But what this also does though, is give the relative values of other services by example.

Notice simple heat, infrared heat, 9 7 0 2 6. It has a value of 0.2. So if you think in relation to a 9, 7, 8, 1 0, you’re gonna think my goodness. That’s literally around 15 percent of that. So if you want to know the relative value of a heat lamp, it’s about 15 percent of the price of your acupuncture, which means that’s why it’s worth like 10.

I, in addition here, though, I have other codes, 99203, 3. 37. Now here’s something to look at notice 97810 is 1. 38. 99203 is 3. 37. Now, this is not exact, but what we all see here, that’s close to, if not quite, three times that rate. I’d say about 2. 6. What you want to start to think of is, what should be my price of a mid level new patient exam?

Two and a half to maybe 2. 75? Of the value of the acupuncture code. So if I’m charging, say 60 for a 97810, my price for a 99203 is going to be 160, 170, somewhere in that range. What I find often is a great deal of undervaluing. of the services. So here’s how we’re going to do this. Let’s talk about what you charge.

Let’s just make it simple. What if we were to charge 75 for a first set of acupuncture? I’m just using this as a random number, so that’s what your fee is. Great. I take 75 and I divide it by its relative value. So I take 75, divide by 1. 38, and it gives me this conversion, which is 54. This conversion number then is what we multiply any other code by.

To tell me it’s relative price. So if my first set of acupuncture is 75, notice the additional set 5434 times 0. 79 means 42. Now I’d probably round that up to probably 43, but needless to say, you can see here. Oh, okay. It’s not going to be the same price. I’ll give an example. I had an office that was charging 60 for every set, and they were paying in full for each one.

They’re thinking, this is great, Sam. You know what that told me? If they’re willing to pay you 60 for an additional set, do you think you have undervalued the primary set? You bet you have. So I want you realizing that this swings both ways, that you really want to start to have a reason behind the fees.

And again, with network members, I want to push you that. Let’s start to set this up, because here’s what I’ve learned. Most acupuncturists bill roughly 8 to maybe 10 codes on a regular basis. Exam codes, acupuncture codes, a handful of therapies. I find of that, usually more than half are undervalued. Which means Half of the codes you bill, you’re getting less money than you should.

So by example, look at the exam price. Now again, remember I said it’s about 2 point whatever above, but notice 54. 34, 183. So again, not quite three times, but you can see the range. But notice for massage. Massage has a higher value than the additional cent. Hence why that one is going to be 49. 99 or again I’d round up to 50.

Now to show you how this works, here is the fee schedule for Arizona. And I just picked Arizona. Obviously this is going across the U. S. and I have network members everywhere. Network members contact me, we’ll go over what’s in your state. But this is always a good starting place. This is the Medicare rates.

for the state of Arizona. And every state has this same breakdown. Now what I’m showing here though is the Medicare rates notice for the acupuncture codes, exam codes, but let’s do the math here to show you how RVUs work. Notice the value in Arizona Medicare is 43. 86. By the way, last year that was like 35.

It’s gone up substantially. So I take 43. 86, I divide by 1. 38. It gives me a conversion of 31. 78. I then take that number, 31. 78, multiplied by any other codes RVU to give me the price. Now notice how this works. 31. 78 times 79 is 25. 10. Do you notice the fee for 97810? 25. 17. I know it’s off a few pennies, but you get it’s in that range.

Notice 3178 times 3. 37 for 99203, 10710. Notice 99203, 10695. Again, within 15 cents. 3178 times 0. 92, the value of a massage, 2923. Notice the value of massage. So you may want to start to realize that, oh, this is exactly how insurances do look at fees, particularly when it comes to personal injury and non managed care.

Now here’s what’s further interesting. My general rule is An office probably wants to be maybe twice the Medicare rates as a typical fee. Now, I’m not saying necessarily that high But that’s a starting point. I would say maybe even 1. 5 But here’s where I bring this up in Arizona for workers compensation and let’s face it.

Would anyone say? Oh, yes, the workers compensation fee the mandated fee is the highest fee in the state No, it’s not but notice the conversion in Arizona is 68 So instead of being 3178, it’s 68. So think of it 97810 has a value of 1. 19. If 68 is your first, or you’re going to use 68 conversion, the worker’s comp rate is going to be, oh wait, 68 times 1.

19 is about 120 percent of that. You’re thinking that first set then is going to be around 80. Yeah, what would the additional set be? 68 times 79 or 80 percent of that take off about 13. Again, right about 52 or 53. Please be careful of undervaluing. If you are billing 50, And a carrier is willing to pay 80, but you bill 50, you’re going to get 50.

So be mindful that if someone ever says, how did you come up with a fee schedule? Have a real reason Not based on what my friends have been doing. We don’t know what your friends are doing. We’re right. Your mom told you that Did you ever get away with it when you said that’s what Johnny did, mom.

Mom’s not going for that. We don’t care what Johnny does, what we do at my house. So network members, I’m mom right now. I want to know, what are you charging? We can go through it. Make sure you set up a zoom for that. I want you to really start to realize, make a competent fee schedule, not a guessing fee schedule.

And that’s what too many of you do. And that’s why a lot of acupuncture struggle. I want to end that struggle. By setting up a good sound fee schedule now bear in mind when you sign a contract With an insurance company you’re accepting the pay less. That’s why they like you to sign up By example, if you sign up with UnitedHealthcare, what do you get?

About 60 a visit. What if you don’t sign up with UnitedHealthcare, what do you get generally? About 100. Same might apply with Cigna. Now ones that are HMOs, maybe we want to, but others you may want to rethink it. So to help you do that, what I’d like you to do is take a moment, and this is, this is not just for my network members, obviously this is for everyone, Use this QR code.

Go in here. You’re going to send us some information of what is your fee for 97810, where they’re going to send you back the calculations of the codes that we just showed you based on your fee for 97810. See if it makes sense, but I’m going to warn everyone. Be careful if you have not increased the value of your 97810 this year, you have flat out lost money because it went up 20%.

That doesn’t mean all managed care, but for everything else. As always, we want to make sure that your practice does well. Network members especially, I’m going to emphasize, if we haven’t done our meeting this year on fee schedules, get in contact with me. Let’s get moving. For everyone else, make this a good starting point.

Maybe I’ll see you in the fall for a seminar to make sure you really can make sense of it. Or how about this? Join the network. Make me part of your staff. Let’s work one on one. As always, everyone, I’m going to say thank you for taking some time with me. We always want you to be successful because your strength is ours.

Take care all.

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Let’s talk about what is going on with UnitedHealthcare. I’m sure many of you have received or have seen the letter that indicated about what changes you have to make.

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Disclaimer: The following is an actual transcript. We do our best to make sure the transcript is as accurate as possible, however, it may contain spelling or grammatical errors. Due to the unique language of acupuncture, there will be errors, so we suggest you watch the video while reading the transcript.

Hey, greetings everyone. It’s Sam Collins, the coding and billing expert. American Acupuncture Council and specifically the American Acupuncture Council network members. And I’m really appealing out to you as well. Not just that we’re not sending it to everyone, but I wanted to keep you updated on what’s new and changing.

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As we always promise, we want to make sure you get the information first, have the right information, can use it. I know a lot of you have probably gotten the UnitedHealthcare information about, we have to build differently and put the GA modifier. I wanted to help attempt to make this simpler, more easy to understand, and kind of.

Boil it down a little bit. So let’s go to the slides. Let’s talk about what is going on with UnitedHealthcare. I’m sure many of you have received or have seen the letter that indicated about what changes you have to make. I want to make it even that much simpler. Here’s what’s happening. Beginning February 1st.

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So starting this month, they want all acupuncture providers must bill UnitedHealthcare for all services they’re providing, even if the services aren’t covered. Now, for the most part, let’s be realistic. Probably you’re billing out mostly acupuncture. There isn’t a lot of services that you’re doing that aren’t covered.

But let’s just say there are services that you’re doing that’s not covered. They’re saying now they want it to be billed. So they want these non covered services to be billed, even if they’re not payable. And this will make an added step from what you normally have been doing. Now, keep in mind, the added step is just you’re going to add it.

The reality is, the No Surprises Act, as a lot of you are familiar with, which has been a couple of years, requires that all providers make patients aware of what their costs are. I think acupuncturists have always done an excellent job of that because that’s the number one question every has is how much is it going to cost?

So what this means is you’re going to make sure not only to do that with patients, make sure what they know, the cost are what’s covered and not covered. But more importantly, what’s not covered. We have to make sure the patient’s aware, like by example, if you’re doing cupping or moxibustion, you want to make sure to let them know, okay, this cupping service is not covered.

And therefore, it’s 25, whatever you charge. So again, think of it now, if it’s a therapy, therapies are for the most part covered, so it’s going to be the services that are not covered. Remember, contract and so forth will come into place. If you’re contracted and it’s bundled, it will be. So again, this is going to be services that they normally do.

Do not cover and the patient will be liable for it’s not going to be very many, but there may be instances where this come up. Realistically, this is should be something you’re already doing. Of course, every patient should be aware of, okay, if your insurance is going to cover, what is it going to cover, but also what is it not going to cover?

So therefore the patient understands what they’re having to pay. That’s again, part of your financial agreement. I hope you’re all already doing that to some extent. Now, what does this mean for non covered services though? I’m going to tell you for the most part, I’m going to look at things that are unusual.

Obviously, massage, manual therapy, exercise, heat, those are all covered. But services that aren’t covered, I’m going to put in cupping and moxibustion as being the most likely. Those are ones we’re going to have to outline. Now, by chance, let’s say the policy doesn’t cover therapies. They’re not bundled, then you would include therapies as well.

But for the most part, I’d say they’re covering therapy. So again, non covered services. And what does this apply? And this is where people are confused because it says commercial plans. So you’re wondering what’s a commercial plan? You know what a commercial plan is one that a person buys or they get through their job for the most part, you know, they get as part of their employment.

The only place that doesn’t apply is ones that are called self insured that are just managed by United healthcare. These would be. big giant employers, you know, large union groups and so forth, which aren’t that typical though. Obviously, if you work with a lot of people in those, you might run and cross it, but it’s going to be generally the commercial plans.

One patient’s purchase themselves, get through their job and Medicare advantage plans, but it doesn’t include if it’s self insured. So it is worth asking when you’re verifying. Is this a self insured plan? Because if it is, then you don’t have to do any of this. Again, I don’t see this as very hard. What do we need to do?

We need, oh, did I hit the wrong button here? I apologize. What we need to do is to make sure a few things. Number one, when verifying UnitedHealthcare, inquire if the plan is a commercial or Medicare Advantage. If it is, we have to do this. Now, again, I’m going to emphasize, this should be something you’re already doing.

You should already be making the patients aware of cost and what services aren’t covered But this is now something they want a little bit more detail for them You’re going to complete a financial understanding with the patient with an estimate of cost which means your cost So let’s say you charge 25 for cupping you would indicate this cupping service is not covered and you would indicate something as simple as It’s not covered because it’s not part of your plan.

Your plan may not consider it medically necessary, but anything like that, the bottom line is make the patient aware it’s not covered and they’re paying out of pocket because in order to hold them liable, the plan now is saying their requirements to do that. It says there identify if any. If any are not covered and include a statement.

So some services are going to be covered. Your acupuncture is covered, but services that are not identified and simply again, state it’s not covered or may not be covered. What you’re doing is making clear. You’re not promising them that it’s going to get paid. It is non covered. Now this brings up, what if you’re doing acupuncture and the acupuncture is not covered, you would do the same for that.

I don’t believe we’re billing too many like that, but just in case, then what you’re going to do is bill for those services. Now in the past. We’re pretty much never required to bill for services. They weren’t going to cover. They’re just liable to the patient now What they’re wanting is that we do bill those services to the insurance What we have to do uniquely though is bill it and then put modifier G a so that’s G as an apple Or excuse me G as in George a as an apple and what you’re doing with that is simply indicating that the patient has signed a waiver meaning that financial agreement where they’ve agreed They’re responsible.

What this is really doing is putting in place that patients are never going to be surprised They know what it’s going to cost in addition the insurance now when you bill in this way They’re going to send the EOB back to the patient indicating what they’ve paid for But that service such as cupping like nine seven zero three nine or one three nine would indicate as patient Responsibility and at the fee you’ve charged and remember that fee is the fee you want to charge It’s up to you.

That’s your cash rate. Whatever your fee is and the patient’s paying. That’s all you’re putting there So is this a little bit of a hassle? Yeah, I think so Um, it’s only a hassle in that we need to bill it. Everything else is the same You still have to inform patients you’re doing a service not covered You start to make sure they understand the cost of it.

Now the only difference is that we also have to put it on the claim and when we do so just put it with the GA. So let’s say it’s a therapy this this plan doesn’t cover a therapy. Okay, we would indicate that therapy with modifier GA. Keep in mind it’s not required for services they pay for. This is only for services they’re not going to be paying for.

So they’ll process it and then they’ll indicate patient responsibility. So let’s kind of get back at synopsis here. Let’s go, what’s going on? UnitedHealthcare commercial policies for acupuncture. You are now to make sure a patient is fully aware of services that they’re going to cover, but also not cover.

That’s not different. We’re to make them aware of the cost of the services, whether they it’s covered or non covered, which is also not different. So therefore that’s all going to be the same. That’s something I think acupuncturists do a good job of. Haven’t you always made sure your patients know the cost?

This is just making sure it’s memorialized, if you will, the patient signing it. And now we’re going to bill it. With a GA, if it’s a non covered service. So just a GA. Now you might be saying, well, what type of form do I have to have? It’s going to be a pretty straightforward, simple financial agreement.

Where you would indicate, these are the services we’re being provided. This is the amounts. And here’s the cost. And also indicate if it’s non covered. Now if you’re a network member with me, AAC Network, just contact me. We do have some samples. If you’re not a member, I apologize, but that’s not available to you.

That’s why we do the service. At least you’re getting the information. But for those that are members. get in contact with. We have a couple of examples. It’s not that complicated, but want a straightforward statement that the patients know it’s not covered. Here’s the point. It protects us. Therefore, a patient can’t come and say, I thought it was gonna pay.

You’re gonna point out. No, we said that at the beginning, and so I think it eliminates a lot of that issue. However, there is an extra step. Yes, you’re gonna now have to put everything on the claim. Part of what United Healthcare is stating they want to see the services that are being provided. What my hope is is that they start noticing that, wow, this cupping service is popular, moxibustion, maybe it should be something that we’re covering.

At least that’s what I would think. So, that’s the change. Non covered services, make sure patients are aware they’re not covered, the cost, put them on the bill. Patient still responsible. Nothing crazier than that. Again, if you’re a network member, get in contact with me. If you’re not a network member, the whole reason I’m doing this is to get this out to our network members, though it’s going to everyone contact me, let’s get you started on into the network.

We’ll give you a lot more help. In addition to that, though, we can give you a day to day help as well as forms and other things. We’re here to help. So for all of you, I greet you and say thank you for listening for a few minutes. I hope to see you at a future program as well. Take care.

 

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I always want to keep you updated first of the year on what’s changing, what’s new, and there’s been things that are changing for this year regarding telemedicine.

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Disclaimer: The following is an actual transcript. We do our best to make sure the transcript is as accurate as possible, however, it may contain spelling or grammatical errors. Due to the unique language of acupuncture, there will be errors, so we suggest you watch the video while reading the transcript.

Hi there friends, it’s Sam Collins, the coding and billing expert for acupuncture, the American Acupuncture Council, and most importantly, you as a profession and as an individual provider. As always, we want to make sure you have the most current information to make sure your practice is thriving. And actually just making more money, if you will, or continuing to make more money is our hope.

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I always want to keep you updated first of the year on what’s changing, what’s new, and there’s been things that are changing for this year regarding telemedicine. Now, I know you’re thinking, is telemedicine something that we do a lot of? Maybe not, but I want to point out there’s going to be a place for it.

So I think it’s important to know what these new codes are. So let’s go to the slides. Let’s talk about telemedicine for 2025, because there was a whole new brand set of brand new set of codes in the old system. And when I say old system for 2024 earlier, when we built telemedicine, it was always for. E&amp; M codes.

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And then we build with a modifier 25. That has changed. For this year, they’ve updated. But let’s make sure first that we define what telemedicine is. Let’s make a clear definition. Telemedicine means that the provider uses interactive audio video telecommunications between you and the patient, which means literally a live visit.

It’s just audio video. That’s all just live. So in other words, it is a face to face visit. It’s just a face to face visit done online. I think that’s very viable in this day and age. And I think, though, that really started during the pandemic. I think it’s really stuck because we’re going to move that way anyway.

Think of how often with a medical provider, This is going to save a ton of time because how many of us have been to a medical provider? They don’t touch you. They just sit on the other side of the room. Shoot We should have done that audio video better for everyone. That potentially could fit for us as well in certain circumstances But do remember it’s live audio video and here’s probably the bigger Sticking point for many of you because you’re thinking oh good.

I’m gonna do herbal consults across the nation I’m going to, I’ll slow down. You have to have price, proper licensure. And it says here, make sure you are licensed both in the state where you are located, obviously, but also where the patient is located. So by example, if you’re in California and you’re trying to do a telemedicine visit for someone in Texas or New York or someplace else in California.

You not as a licensed acupuncturist. Now, this is irregardless of if you’re billing insurance, frankly, because you cannot practice in a state you’re not licensed. If you’re saying you want to do some type of herbal consult outside of your state, you’re not doing it as an acupuncturist, you’re doing it as an individual, which means you have no protection.

You’re not, you don’t have malpractice, something goes wrong, it’s on you. I’d be very careful of that. The key factor here is, I think if you’re going to do this, do it for patients that are here because Maybe they have difficulty coming in. Maybe your first visit is going to take an hour because there’s so much information you’re going to do a long consult with them.

Telemedicine might bridge that, so that way when they come in the office, you can get right to it. And or, maybe they don’t have that much time. What about a patient that goes I can’t get off work until this time, I can’t be there. Okay, let’s do some of it, telemedicine. So here’s what’s changed for 2025.

We have some brand new codes and you’ll see these codes. It’s 9800 through 98007. And what these are for. is telemedicine, but you’ll notice they are E&amp; M codes. You’ll notice it says, Synchronous audio video visit for the evaluation management of a new patient, which requires a medically appropriate history and examination.

Straightforward in nature. That’s literally the same thing as an E&amp; M code, except it says synchronous. So in other words, think of these just like E&amp; M codes. 9 8 0 0 0 will be a 9 9 2 0 2, the next one a 4, 0 5. And so much the same way, and I think the easiest way to see these is it’s going to be based on time.

A 15 minute audio video visit, 9 8 0 0 0. 30 minutes, the 0 1. 45 minutes, 02, 60 minutes, 03. And I do think you want to caution that it’s not always going to be about medical decision making, though it could be, which exams mostly are. But if you’re doing a telemedicine with a patient and it takes an hour because of all the information, is it appropriate to use 98003?

Absolutely it is. So don’t be afraid to use it, but document it the same way. You’re going to document I spent one hour over audio video. Tell me the system you use. Tell me the date and time, but you don’t record it. You don’t have to save it somewhere. And it’s going to be all the information you take.

And it’s going to be the same stuff you would take down if they were sitting in front of you. Their history. And maybe some of the evaluation. Now when I say history, realize that’s going to include past history, family history, review of systems, all that stuff. But can it include some exam things? I think at least some.

Could you do potentially a tongue evaluation over audio video, get it close enough to the tongue? Probably. I’d be worried about color a little bit, depending on the cameras, but I think we’re okay. Could you certainly do a range of motion? I think so. Now, could you do tongue and pulse and body palpation?

No, but I think this visit often is going to be one based on a lot of counseling, a lot of history and information. So these are new patients. And these are established patients. They work the same way, just about time. I think time is the more likely use. Here’s the difficulty. How much has this happened in your practice in the last year?

If you’re saying none, it’s probably going to happen none this year, because I think we have to promulgate this. I would say, let’s say you have a patient, they’ve had a car accident, they’re coming in from a medical referral, and you talk with them and you say, hey, we’re going to have to block an hour. for this.

And the patient, Oh, I don’t have an hour. I don’t have an hour until I can come two weeks from now. I don’t want to wait two weeks. Let’s do an audio video. Let’s start there. Now you may wonder what is the value of these? They’re much like the value of a regular E. N. M. They’re slightly less. And by the way, next month we’ll do a program.

The program I do will be on our views. So we’ll go over that. But I’m gonna tell you, it’s roughly 80 percent of what you would build your normal E. N. M. S. There’s no modifier necessary because there’s no treatment. It’s just this visit and what if a visit where the patient’s calling and just goes, you know what?

I need to discuss with you. I’ve got these issues. This visit could be counseling. These could fit. I would just be mindful. Make sure it’s a plan that covers exams. Here’s one of the problems we’re having for acupuncturists. A lot of the plans that you have joined as a provider, you wind up getting into a contract that says we don’t cover exams.

Now, that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t do them. They’re just saying they bundle it and don’t pay it separately. I know a lot of you know what I’m talking about. That’s an upcoming show as well. Anyway, what my point is that be careful. If they’re not covering an E&amp; M code, they’re not going to cover this.

So it’s got to be a plan that covers an E&amp; M, but I do think this is reasonable in some instances. Realistically though, let’s talk about acupuncture. While I love the availability of this service and the potential to use it, I think there’s a place for it. Is that the way we really want to treat someone?

Is that how we’re going to make them better? Let’s face it, in acupuncture, what you do is hands on. You get in the room, you put in needles, because without needles, you can’t talk me into feeling better. Sorry, give me some advice. But the reality is it’s the acupuncture, it’s what you do, but this can be a bridge.

So focus really on the acupuncture part, but this bridge might work for some, I can tell you major carriers, Anthem, Cigna United Healthcare, they will cover this. Just, again, go back to wait a minute, what does my contract say if I’m part of ASH? Maybe not. Now, there’s also new codes for 2025 for telephone calls.

Now, I say telephone calls, actually, what these are called are synchronous audio visits. Now, the reason I say telephone calls is because I’m old. Young people think, no, I don’t need a phone. You can do it through lots of devices. And so realize, though, it does mean just audio only. Now, these work in the same way as the old phone call codes.

And let me be clear. Remember those old codes for phone calls that you had? 99441 and so on? Those are gone. They don’t exist. But let me be conscientious when it comes to a phone call. Phone calls aren’t very typical. Because phone calls are difficult. A phone call that results in a person coming in for a visit or has been seen within the previous 7 days.

is one that they’re not going to cover. And so make sure we understand that. But they are straightforward. 15 minutes, 30 minutes, 45 minutes, or an hour. Okay? That’s a new patient. We have telephone audio visit here for established patients. You know where this probably works though? You have a patient you’ve treated.

It was two weeks ago. They call you and go, oh my god, it’s killing me. And you spend 30 minutes on the phone and they can’t come for the next month because they’re going to go out of town. That could work. Now notice the scenario I gave because if the result of this phone call is a visit is being appointed, then it becomes part of the visit.

So phone calls aren’t going to be well paid because let’s face it, no one’s going to call. You’re going to go, Oh, just do these acupressure points. I’m not saying you won’t do that. Chances are you want to get them in for a visit. So I point this out because it’s important to know, because you’re going to hear people saying there’s codes changed.

And it’s true, but we have to look at what’s the viability of use for us as providers. Is it really viable? And I would say for most of these, in this sense, probably not. It even applies to this new one, which is called a virtual check in. I had someone the other day as acupuncturist, that’s why I decided to do this.

I want to use this code because the patients are sending me emails. A check in is not an email. A check in is when you have an electronic health record system. That’s protected HIPAA compliant, where the patient logs into their account and then checks in with you with some information that maybe you’re communicating back and forth.

You can tell now, that’s probably not viable. One, I don’t know of a system that’s out there for us that does that. Some medical ones do, but the ones for accus, I don’t see that too often. I’m not saying if you have one that does, great. The problem is going to be, notice it says, provided within the previous seven days or procedure within the next 24 hours.

So in other words, if the result of this is again, treatment. Or, was within seven days of a prior visit? Does not count. So being mindful here, when it comes to use of these, do they really match? Because chances are when someone does a check in or a phone call, what is it going to result in? The person coming in for a visit.

So let’s be careful of being overzealous, but focus in on what we do well. What is the reason that people come to you to receive acupuncture if you could talk them into feeling good? You would have done that already or they wouldn’t need to see you It’s the acupuncture where I think this is helpful is to understand that there can be a bridge Particularly the audio video one that helps the phone call thing or you know The audio only is what I think it helps to get them in the office in that few minutes of counseling though You’re not billing for it directly Indirectly, it’s creating that good patient doctor relationship.

They trust you and you’re giving them solid information. The good news is, your practice continues to thrive. Next month when we go over RVUs, I’m not sure you’re aware, do you know your fees for the first set raised 20%? And that’s where I want to make a focus. So as always, we want to be the place where you get the right information.

The American Acupuncture Council has a very vested interest in all of you. Please make sure you continue to practice well, but I also want to make sure you’re profitable. If you’re not already, go to our website for the network. Take a look there. We’ve got a lot of information to always keep you updated because as always, your success is ours.

Until I see you next time, be well, my friends.

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