So is there a way? To request or to get an increase in a PPO rate, because if you think of it, they never do it, but is there an opportunity to do yeah…

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Disclaimer: The following is an actual transcript. We do our best to make sure the transcript is as accurate as possible, however, it may contain spelling or grammatical errors. Due to the unique language of acupuncture, there will be errors, so we suggest you watch the video while reading the transcript.

Greetings, my friends. This is Sam Collins, the coding and billing expert for acupuncture and for you, but the profession as a whole. Thank you, American Acupuncture Council, for the opportunity. But let’s get into it. What’s going on, particularly for the first of the year? You’re always thinking business, money, pricing, and many of you have joined these HMO slash PPO plans and may have been in them for years and are noticing them.

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I’m getting paid the same thing, year after year, and at some point that becomes unsustainable. So is there a way? To request or to get an increase in a PPO rate, because if you think of it, they never do it, but is there an opportunity to do yeah, I will certainly say I’ve had offices that have had success in getting rate increases for PPOs, but there’s a way to do it that I think will lend to potentially having more success.

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This is no guarantee, but potentially more success in getting a rate increase. So let’s go to the slides. Let’s talk about that. What things do we need to do? To help ourselves request a rate increase and really get one, it comes down to making sure you create really a value opportunity about your office.

I want you to write a letter to them and request specifically an increase, but by writing a unique value proposition that makes your practice stand out. Maybe where you’re located. Okay, it might be an underserved area. Those types of things are helpful, but more than anything, always go by what’s your status within the plan.

Show your value. I’m sure many of you have heard of the company ASH or one similar, and you can rise in status from Tier 1 to Tier 6. Obviously, the higher tier status you have, The more prestige you have in the plan, and that creates more of a value. They want to keep those higher performing providers, and if you are one of those, that certainly makes it much, much better.

You want to also focus in on your utilization. Bear in mind, we do understand these plans raise your tier by not over utilizing care. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t do the care that’s necessary, but be mindful, they’re not expecting everyone should get 20, 30 visits. They’re expecting, actually, an average of about 8 visits per patient.

And what that means is, you’re going to have some patients that you might see 20 times. They need it. There should be a balance with maybe seeing some of them two times, so that average comes in. Realize, don’t let one patient plan set it up, but the average over time. And if your numbers are lower, you can show that.

You would point out, heck, my average is six, let’s just say. You want to also highlight, what about the number of providers that might be in the region? Some areas are very underserved. Particularly now with the viability of acupuncture, the VA and all these things, they’re looking for providers. And if it’s an underserved area, that’s going to help.

But even if it’s over served, if you will, there’s a lot of providers. Where do you stand out? Your availability, your location, your hours. Your languages you speak. What if you have multiple languages? I would highly recommend if you have multiple languages spoken in the office, it should be brought up.

Do you speak Spanish? Do you speak Tagalog? I mean think of any type of language. It’s gonna be helpful to create access because that’s very important these PPO plans always creating access. Make sure you also point out their value Compared to other existing contracts. Other plans you’re part of, but I would start with Medicare and Workers Comp.

My goodness, even Medicare for two sets? When you look at the Medicare rate, it allows 70. Workers compensation is usually a percentage of that. Usually anywhere from 120 to as much as 200 percent of Medicare. So therefore, you want to start to use that to say, how is it a PPO thinks they’re sustaining when they don’t even meet the value of Medicare?

And Medicare is the low end. ASH is going to pay many acupuncturists 40 to a visit, which is literally one set, even for Medicare. And if there’s two sets for Medicare, you get 70. So it’s probably unsustainable, and it’s not reasonable, really. Because you have to look at inflation and cost of practice.

Don’t be afraid to bring up about your own specific issues in your practice. What does cost more? Certainly, when you first started practicing, your rates have increased. I’m looking at rates of rent now, which are through the roof. Could that be sustained? Look at gas, the cost of phone and internet, all those things are part of a practice and cost.

So you have to make sure that you’re creating all of that with the window to show your value and unique value to that plan of how you’ve helped people. Don’t be afraid to get a few testimonials from patients of how you’ve helped them. Make sure there are ones too that the patients didn’t have something where they needed hundreds of visits to.

But nonetheless, those types of things are going to be helpful because an insurance company has a vested interest. and making their clients Happy. You want to show that’s what your job is and what you have done. So here’s a way to focus that. This would be the highlights of how to put together some type of proposition or letter to the carrier.

And you can point out, I’ve been a panel provider since say 2015. For some of you, it might even be longer. I support the development of managed care in acupuncture because it helps to standardize documentation, promote evidence based care, and create greater accessibility. We want people to have access to get acupuncture.

We do. But we’ve got to make sure in doing so, we have to have a reasonable amount that’s paid to us to sustain it. You’ll highlight to them there’s been no significant change in reimbursement from your plan, and I’ve been a member for decades maybe. These days, I’ve increased costs. Staff salaries, rent.

Think of the work we have to do now with electronic health records, electronic billing. All the costs that are there. A lot of these plans require you to bill electronically. That doesn’t happen for free. Therefore, that’s got to be brought in. Software contracts and so forth. Not to mention your rent and the other things that go with maintaining your practice.

And frankly, the cost of other things. Cost of gowns. Cost of needles. It’s all increased. You’ll highlight to them, my overhead is nearly four times of what it was when I enrolled with you. My average cost of seeing the patient now is 41 a visit before there’s even a profit. So some of these plans are paying as little as 40.

So you got to think, wait a minute, if my cost is 41 and I’m getting 40, does this make any sense? No. Can you imagine every business just exactly makes what their actual costs are? You can’t stay open. There’s just no way. So this level of reimbursement is not a sustainable model, and while being on the plan to create a greater volume of patients, there’s still a limitation.

Let’s face it, an acupuncture visit is typically 30 to 45 minutes. How in the world can you sustain a practice where you’re getting paid? Less than 80 for an entire hour of work, maybe an hour and a half, and then going to be able to maintain that practice to be open. Think of just what you’re paying per square foot.

In some ways, I would argue we might be better off working at Starbucks or Panda Express, considering some of those places pay 40, 000 to 80, 000 a year. For a full time worker. Come on, as a healthcare professional, they can’t have rates that are at least sustained at that level. So you want to start to point out that hypocrisy by pointing out the rates for your insurance have increased to allow the plan to remain solvent.

I get that. Has insurance companies increased the rates to their insurance every year? I know and I redo my insurance every September. There’s been an increase every year I’ve been in there. However, are providers part of this increase? Isn’t it interesting how insurance companies typically say we’ve had to increase the rates because of the increase in cost.

And I agree, there’s an increase in cost. Where isn’t there an increase in cost? What provider is still getting the same, paid the same amount they have for years? So in reality, the provider costs are flat. Yet, they get all these raises to do what? Now maybe that’s to cover drug costs and all that, but at the end of the day How could they say we’re part of an increased rate when they’ve not paid us any more money?

They’re thinking you just can see more people. How could we see more people if it takes that much time? So it’s unreasonable for providers to bear this cost with no consideration, while the plan has increased their premiums and the adjustments in pay to their workers. If you work for these plans, I bet many of them, if not everyone, get some type of adjustment yearly, 2 to 3 percent.

I’m looking at least for that. I would think if you haven’t had one in a while, what about a 10 or 20 percent jump for this year? Because to sustain it in this way at some point just cannot be sustained. In my observation, healthcare services are the cornerstone of this business and have been left out.

I’m requesting if you’re getting per diem or even if it’s per service, a certain request over that, which will allow me to continue to welcome these patients to my office in the future. Because without an increase, I will no longer be able to sustain the relationship. Let’s be reasonable. It just won’t.

In fact, I’ve had a lot of offices that realized that it was a sum negative and they’ve dropped out. And this is someone I spoke to last week. This is not an exaggeration. They pointed out that they dropped out of one of these plans and they first were very panicked because they thought, Oh my God. And they go, Oh my God, Sam.

In the first two months, they lost 30 percent of the patients. But here’s what they realized. They lost 30 percent of the patients, but that only equals 6 percent of the revenue. What does that tell you about this plan? How bad it is? All this work and emphasis. Maybe it’s not worth it. And this is something that you have to start to look at as a business decision.

There’s nothing wrong with being part of these plans if they’re at a sustainable rate. But if they’re not, maybe it is time to move on. And this is what we look at. If they can’t sustain it, then let’s move elsewhere. Don’t be afraid to make a move. Don’t be afraid to request. Because at the end of the day, the power is with the providers if we wield it.

And don’t be afraid that ultimate power is your patient. And if that patient is still coming in without the plan and paying a fair rate, why would I push for this thing where I’m getting paid 25, 30? So do be careful, but I’m not saying not to request, not to do it, but at least this way you’ll know where you stand.

And if they’re treating you that poorly, maybe it’s time to move on. Don’t be afraid to break a relationship that relationship does not have mutual parts that are beneficial to both sides. And that rate increase to us, I think is important and without it, maybe we can’t stay there. So don’t be afraid.

I wish you well, as always, the American Acupuncturist and myself are always there to help our service. The network is a place where you can go and work with me one on one to really write up a protocol like this. I really wish you all well, continue a good practice and enjoy what you do.

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Disclaimer: The following is an actual transcript. We do our best to make sure the transcript is as accurate as possible, however, it may contain spelling or grammatical errors. Due to the unique language of acupuncture, there will be errors, so we suggest you watch the video while reading the transcript.

Hi everyone. It’s Sam Collins, the coding and billing expert for acupuncture and the American Acupuncture Council. We’re here for you and we wanna make sure your practice continues to thrive. Let’s get into it. Let’s talk about what’s happening with documentation of acupuncture services, specifically time services.

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This is continuously a problem and I want to help you solve that and make sure you understand it with some ease to make sure your claims are paid. Make sure you’re getting paid what you’re supposed to be paid. So let’s go to the slides, everyone. Let’s talk about documenting and recording time specifically for acupuncture.

Where we’ve run into a ton of trouble is to realize that acupuncturists probably never really learn this correctly and don’t understand the value of their time. I think acupuncturists probably more than any other provider, spend more time. With their patients one on one and any their provider, and I’ve been to lots of different types, but my acupuncturist is the one I spend the most time with.

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All I’m saying to you is that’s true. Let’s make sure to document it. So acupuncture highlights specifically time and I underline it here. Notice each of the codes indicate initial 15 minutes of personal one-on-one. Contact the additional one each additional 15 minutes with personal. One-on-one contact.

So it means acupuncture requires that you spend time one-on-one with the patient, and of course, inserting needles. Now I just highlighted the manual acupuncture, but it’s the same is true for electro acupuncture. Whether or not it’s electro or manual, please document the time. It’s the one area that so frustrates me ’cause I have so many good acupuncturists who are doing really well in getting paid hundreds of dollars per visit On some insurances, I kid you not, but we run into problems where their claims are denied and I want to see what’s occurring.

Here’s one for United Healthcare, and you’ll see here this is for 9 7 8 1 1 N one three and it says, not supported. It says the add-on type of code requires a primary code. It cannot be accurately seen. Therefore the validity of the accuracy of the bill services cannot be verified. So in other words, there’s no time you think no, it doesn’t say that.

Let’s see. 9 7, 8 1 3. The initial one says the submitted medical records do not support. 9 7 8 1 3 was performed. The documentation submitted does not indicate the time. Was personal one-on-one contact. Now notice it’s telling you the time didn’t indicate as personal one-on-one. It is not sufficient to just say time, because time could be the time the patient is resting on needles.

We wanna know the one-on-one time. Now here’s an interesting one. Notice some of the claims and initially for the followup set says not supported. Notice the initial set is, so what did they do differently on the first? They didn’t do on the second. You’ve got to get in the habit of saying, I spent one on one time.

So by example, what is this one-on-one time, and I think many acupuncturists forget what this really includes. So let’s get into this 15 minute code. The 15 minute code is personal. one-on-One contact. Literally that means on an acupuncture visit day, not with exam, just treatment. As soon as you walk in the room with a patient.

The time starts. So what I’d like you to do is look at your watch and go, oh, start at 10 0 5, or whatever the case may be. Give me specifically the start time, or at least start a timer because this means, and you’ll see here, the acupuncturist is in the room with the patient and actively performing a medically necessary act component of acupuncture.

Now, realize, what is that gonna include? When you first walk in the room, you might review their note and say, Hey, last time you said such and such. That’s included. It’s going to be review of the history, asking them how they’re feeling. Notice none of this is even yet putting needles anywhere, but just asking the patient what’s going on.

It’s then going to include your day-to-Day evaluation could be tongue and pulse, range of motion. You name it. Any of those things you might do realize includes washing your hands, sanitizing. Choosing the points, cleaning the points, getting the needles open, inserting the needles, manipulating the needles if you have to.

And of course it actually includes removal so you know how you’re in the room with a patient. You might leave them rest on needles. I. Maybe you come back 10 minutes later, as soon as you walk in the room, time starts again because the time to take the needles out and dispose actually counts and notice this component as well as completion of chart notes while the patient is present.

So that means, you finish it up when the patient’s there, that actually counts. Now what wouldn’t count is if you do it later sitting in your office, but if it’s while the patient is there, it all counts. So you know you’re asking those few questions at the end. Just gimme the total time. I love that we’d have a program somehow.

Maybe there’s a mat. When you walk in the room, the mat turns on a timer, and when you walk out of the room, the night timer goes off. Because if you’re in the room, it’s a component of acupuncture. You’re doing something towards it. Unless it’s another therapy. Now, where a lot of people get fooled on this though, because they said Sam it’s 15 minutes.

Do I actually have to spend 15 minutes? Technically, no. It’s what we call the eight minute rule, and this eight minute rule is true. For all codes that are 15 minutes when it comes to CPT, including physical therapy and physical medicine, but actually acupuncture. So I’ve given you a simple breakdown of it.

Notice one unit is at least eight minutes. So do you have to spend 15 minutes to do acupuncture? No. If I spend eight minutes and insert a needle. I can remove it and they’re out of there. That actually could be enough time. Now, I don’t think anyone’s doing an eight minute visit, but I think you get the premise here is that we’re just looking in increments that if you’re doing more than 50% of the time, meaning eight minutes, you qualify.

I don’t think anyone has any problem doing the first eight minutes. Of course, where things get a little trickier though is how do we do an additional set? That requires additional time and additional insertions, but it doesn’t require. 15 minutes. The answer is no. It requires an additional eight.

Now here’s where it’s confusing though. What if I do eight minutes on the first and go, I did eight minutes on the second. What’s the total time for eight plus eight 16? Is that enough? No. ’cause there has to be at least 23. So realize the second unit of time, that eight minutes begins after 15 minutes and it’s plus eight.

So that’s why you’ll see one unit is as little as eight, but two units or two sets is 23. Three sets would be 38. So you have to make sure that time matches. So by example, if you did eight minutes on one and eight minutes on the other, that wouldn’t be enough. It would’ve to be 15 plus eight. Or how about this?

What if you sp you spent 12 minutes on the first one and 11 minutes on the second one, would that be adequate? It would, because there’s 23 minutes, so please make sure that you’re just simply documenting the time. Notice it wasn’t saying, the time wasn’t documented, they were indicating the time wasn’t clearly indicated as face-to-face.

So get in the habit of saying face-to-face time with the patient. Because what if there’s time where the patient’s resting on needles? I know when I go to my acupuncturist, she will put in needles. Then she usually leaves the room about 10 minutes or so. Great. It gives me time to relax. Realize though that time simply doesn’t count towards the coating, but then when she comes back, it does.

So it has to be actively part of it. So if you come back in the room and stimulate needles, it would be if you come back in and insert more, that would be an additional set. So please note here it says yes. Do you have to do insertion of needles? Yeah, reinsertion. Bad term of course, but additional insertion.

So keep in mind, just retaining needles for an extended period of time does not give two sets. Stimulating needles does not. There must be an insertion. So keep that in mind and realize I’m showing. This is from Regents Blue Cross Blue Shield from their acupuncture part. Notice it says here, eight minute rule, eight to 22, 20 23 to 37, so you can see clearly.

This is not just a SAM rule. I’m not trying to just say I’m the know it all. No, I’m giving you the rule based on the guidelines. Notice it says if you do seven minutes or less, doesn’t count. As soon as you do. Eight minutes. Yep. So right in there you can do it. So realize that UnitedHealthcare is the one I just showed you that had a problem, and it says, for any time-based code, the duration of service must be clearly documented.

And the time service is not clearly and properly documented, then the service is not supported. And it needs to be because we have to indicate face-to-face time, acupuncture. Often patient patients will rest on needles. And so the reason that we’re seeing some of this is ’cause I think we’re combining that and not separating it out or.

Just not making it clear. Just make it clear. Notice a couple of things here because it tells you how you document, so you might wonder, how do I’m supposed to document this, Sam? It’s unacceptable Documentation of time-based services. What’s unacceptable? Documenting in terms of units. You can’t just say, I did two sets of acupuncture.

You can say that, but I need you to tell me set number one, how many minutes did you spend face to face and where’d you put needles? We cannot use a range of time. You can’t say, I spent between 20 and 25. It should be, I spent 20 or 21 or 22. You also wanna make sure that you’re not specifying a measurement or increment used, meaning that I did from this time to this time.

That range part, or just not mentioning time at all. I think the easiest way to see this though, and for those of you that have been to a seminar with me and or have our accu code, you’ve seen this is a sample of a soap note. What I wanna do is just blow up. Where the area is, that time is documented.

Take a look here where it talks about acupuncture and it says Set one, two, and three. Now realize this form. If you wanted to add a force set, you just add another column, but nonetheless, notice set one. The points that were inserted or reinserted could be either one. We list the points and then we indicate face to face time five 20 to 5 45.

That’s 25 minutes notice, there’s retention time. There is a rest period, but notice set number one is 25. Notice set number 2, 5 55 to 6 0 5. That’s only 10 minutes, but does that meet the eight minute rule? Yeah, it’s more than eight plus. The first one being 25, that’s 33. We’re easily above. And then notice the third set is six 10 to six 30.

Now, may wonder how come the middle set was so much shorter? Doesn’t take that much time to add more probably. And the last set was also 20 minutes. Why was that last set longer? Think of all the things you do at the end of the visit, counseling the patient, removing the needles, and disposing. Just give me the time.

None of that is hard. Acupuncturist by, right? Always brag about how much time they spend with someone. I talked to someone this morning that goes, Sam, I spend God between 40 and 50 minutes with every patient, and I believe that to be pretty true. For most of you. You know what I want from you. Document it.

You’ll never have an issue. Now you may think I only do cash. Great. You still have to document the services. So realize this has nothing to do with insurance. This is just to do with you properly documenting what services were provided. Tell me how much time you spent, what points you did. We’re good.

It will also equal you get paid. I’m not sure you’d notice, and I’m not gonna go back to it. Did you see the prices on some of that United Healthcare? So if you wanna rewatch this later, you’re gonna go, oh my gosh. Now, I’m not saying we wanna bill that much, but if you’re in certain areas, why wouldn’t you bill what it’s actually worth?

Acupuncture is a great service. You’re at a great time to be an acupuncturist. Take advantage of the advancements of your field in getting access. Please document the time. It’ll never be an issue. I wanna say thanks, but realize we’re always here to help our network service and our seminars are where you can go for one-on-one help.

We can do zooms together and deal with you specifically, not just a general question. Please go out and do well because we’re dependent on you, the American Acupuncture Council and myself. We count on you. Your success is ours. Until next time, my friends.

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Well, today I’m gonna spend some time talking about valuation and management services or E and M codes or exam codes.

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Disclaimer: The following is an actual transcript. We do our best to make sure the transcript is as accurate as possible, however, it may contain spelling or grammatical errors. Due to the unique language of acupuncture, there will be errors, so we suggest you watch the video while reading the transcript.

Hi everyone. This is Sam Collins, your coding and billing expert for acupuncture, the American Acupuncture Council. And of course you, let’s make sure your claims are getting paid, and I don’t care whether you’re doing cash insurance or otherwise. We always wanna make sure you’re doing well, we have a vested interest in you.

Well, today I’m gonna spend some time talking about Valuation and management services or e and m codes or exam codes. And I’ve recently had a lot of offices with issues of Sam, my exams are being denied or they’re not paid and they’re giving me excuses that don’t appear. Right? So let’s talk about that a little bit.

Does a patient require an exam? Of course they do. Well, let’s get into that. Let’s go to the slides. Let’s talk about what’s going on and getting paid for your e and m services. How do I get paid for my exams? And I use the term exams because. Often people will say e and m, and then they say, office visit.

And I want you to keep in mind an office visit is anything that you do when a patient comes in, they’re visiting your office. So keep in mind, office visit from your standpoint should just be the visit overall. It depends on what you do. So by example, on days you do an exam. That would be an e and m service, and you may do treatment the same as well, so be careful.

The term offices, it will often get you confused. What I’m speaking about for exams of course, are evaluation management or e and m codes. If you’ve all learned, and you’ll notice we have two types. The new patient, the established patient, you know, two oh twos to 2 0 5 for new 2, 1, 1 to 2, 1 5 for establishing.

What are these for, for the indication when the patient required an examination by you. To determine their diagnosis, their need for care, and so forth. And so we’re broken down into four codes for new patients, five for established, and they’re pretty straightforward. They just indicate how much time or how much medical decision making did you spend doing an exam.

You should be familiar with that. That’s not the hard part. Where we run into problems often is, I’ll get off the saying, Sam, I billed for an exam code. And I didn’t get paid. The insurance said it’s not a covered benefit or it’s included in something else. So what is it that’s required to do or get paid for an exam?

Well, let’s think of it. An exam is something that’s absolute required. If an insurance says that you shouldn’t do an exam or it’s not within scope, I can’t believe that not to be true. I mean, obviously when a patient comes in, what’s the first thing you have to do? In order to know whether you can help them, you have to evaluate them.

It’s required to determine the condition and their need for care, what’s wrong with them. And then of course, I would argue it is a ethical and legal requirement. Can you imagine the liability if you said, Hey, I don’t care. What’s wrong with you? Just shut up and lie on the table and start needling in you and go, well, we’ll see what’s happening.

I don’t care what’s wrong. Well, of course not. It is an absolute requirement that you make some level of evaluation, determine the need and necessity for care. So I’m gonna say it is an absolute requirement to do an exam, however, where the confusion comes in is how do you bill for it and how do you document it?

Well, let’s realize the one thing that’s probably the most common issue for acupuncturists being denied for exams. Is the failure to understand that every time you bill an exam code an e and m code with treatment, you have to put a special modifier on it in order to determine and to demonstrate it is separate.

From the exam associated with the treatment. So notice here it talks about the acupuncture services or procedures includes an e and m assessment. So in simplest ways, think of it this way, if you saw someone for the very first time, you are clearly gonna ask them lots of information about who they are, what’s their symptoms, what’s going on, what makes it worse, what makes it better.

In other words, you’re gonna do a pretty detailed history. You’re likely gonna do some physical exam things. Maybe it’s tongue and pulse, maybe palpation, range of motion, you name it, the many things an acupuncturist might provide. And then based on that, you’re going to determine a diagnosis and then begin some treatment.

Well, those things actually are somewhat included in the acupuncture service, but here’s where we have to be unique. Realize the acupuncture service does include . A small exam. Now, the first visit, the one I just described, is clearly different, above and beyond. But let’s talk about that first visit is one thing, but what about when the patient comes the second time?

Maybe I come to you two days later and you say, Hey, Sam, how are you feeling? Is that a little better or worse than last time? How much time did the pain resolve for you? In other words, you’re gonna do a little short exam that includes a little history, maybe some findings such as, you know, uh, tongue and pulse again.

And then begin treatment. So there’s what we call a pre intra and post-service evaluation associated with treatment. So here is the number one reason most acupuncturists are denied for exams. You forgot to tell them this exam is above and beyond what I normally do as part of the visit. It’s a true examination and we have to put modifier 25.

So if you’ve been denied for an exam and you’re not familiar with 25, that’s probably the number one reason that modifier is necessary to indicate to the carrier that this examination was separate and distinct. Therefore payable, no modifier, no money. Now, why is that? Because you’ll see here, there is a pre-service associated with treatment.

When they come in the second time, you’re gonna do a little review of their record, a little record review, face-to-face time with them, do some evaluation things, get them set up for care, perform the care, and even after the care, you’re gonna evaluate, Hey, how are they doing? Give them some recommendations for at home.

And this is why it says specifically in the CPT Manual. It says what you see at the bottom here, it says, additional evaluation and management services may be reported separately if and only if the patient’s condition requires a significantly separate identifiable e and m service above and beyond the usual pre and post service work associated with care.

So in other words, we’re saying, no, no, no. This is not the one that we do day to day, but this is the one above and beyond. So to come full circle with that, when is that necessary? Well, clearly the first visit. There’s no doubt a first visit should be separately paid for an exam and we put a 25 ’cause that’s clearly above and beyond what you would do on a follow-up.

Now, when would it become necessary again? Now, some of you say, well, Sam, I do an exam every day. That’s exactly what we’re pointing out here. You do and we understand that, and a little bit of that is associated with the treatment. Keep in mind, that’s not only true for you as an acupuncturist, that’s true for medical doctors, chiropractors, physical therapists, anyone that’s doing this type of care.

Would have the same provision. So they have to put the modifiers as well to show that it’s separate. So we have to make sure it’s above and beyond. So it says here if and only if it requires a significant one. So the day-to-day one, you do for, you know, several visits after, not really, but when would it be appropriate?

Certainly every 30 days. Now why every 30 days? It’s the standard. It’s the one set up through Medicare that all insurances have adopted. So an exam on the very first visit. When every 30 days absolutely reasonable should be payable. Just remember, assuming there’s treatment, put a 25. Well, what if you say, what if I don’t put a 25?

You won’t get paid. Now, you don’t need a 25 on the day-to-day one, but on the one that’s exam, so the first visit. And then about every 30 days. Now, some of you say, I like to do it every six visits. No, it’s every 30 days. Whether you do 12 visits in 30 days or six, keep in mind it’s about 30 days. Now, there could be instances.

What if the patient says, Hey, last night I fell down and I hurt my back. Would that be appropriate to do a separate exam from what you were seeing them before? Let’s say it were headaches. Well, of course, because there’s something new or significant that’s above and beyond, so make sure it has to stand out.

In other words, make sure the exam clearly shows that this is not the routine exam, and that’s probably the number one reasons things get denied. So simply put, when you’re billing, put a 25, notice this example here. You’ll see 9 9 2 0 3, that mid-level exam. But because there’s acupuncture performed the same day.

We put the 25 modifier on it. The 25 modifier does not change the price. It’s still gonna be paid the same. It just indicates that it’s payable. There is no reduction in doing that. In fact, in many ways. I wonder maybe should that have been the second thing you’ve learned in acupuncture school? I mean, the first thing, of course, how wonderful the profession is, all the things you can do.

But can you imagine how many of you finished school? Never learn this one simple thing. And then of course you get out and you’re frustrated like, how come I don’t get paid for exams? Well, because you didn’t put the proper modifier. Now let’s keep in mind, I’ve had some offices though, that are saying, well, Sam, I know that I’ve been doing that and these insurances still won’t pay.

So what I’ve done here is I’ve taken a page. From the CPT book, I just took a picture of it. Put it up here, and here’s what it says. Notice it says, evaluation and management services may be reported in addition to acupuncture procedures when performed by physician or other healthcare professionals who may report them, which means you.

Now we move down a little bit here and we’ll get into this section here and it says it may be reported separately using modifier 25 so long as it’s above and beyond. So I wanna make sure if you ever get a carrier that’s saying . You shouldn’t be able to. I wanna point out the CPT manual clearly says it.

This is not unique to you. It says it the same for chiros, the same for medical doctors and so forth. So it is absolutely appropriate. However, there are some plans that come back and say, no, we’re still not gonna pay. So let’s talk about how to deal with if it’s denied, was it billed properly? Would be the number one thing.

Did I put modifier 25? That’s probably the simple one, but sometimes you’re gonna say to me, Sam. I did put the modifier 25. It still came back and it stated the exam was included in another service. What you’re gonna do is push back and say, excuse me, this was done on the first visitor every 30 days, and there was clearly a separate and distinct service, an exam that was above the routine day-to-day visit.

So you’re gonna push back on that and basically point out to them it was separate. That’s why we put the 25. But here’s the bigger problem sometimes. It’s because you have a contract. It’s why I will warn you. In fact, how many of you have worked with me directly? one-on-One to know whether or not it’s worth it to join some plans.

I’m not gonna say never, ever, but you wanna make some better choices. ’cause sometimes when you join these plans, you join ’em and think, great, I’m gonna get more patients. Do you know many of your contracts say we don’t cover exams? So the reason it may not be covered, it’s part of your PPO reduction.

It’s basically saying, we’re gonna send you a lot more patients, but we’re not gonna pay for the exam. You have to make it a business decision. Is that worth it to me to get less money, but maybe more patience in some instances? Maybe, but for me, mostly, probably not. So what if the issue is part of your contract?

Is there a way to dispute that? No. That’s the contract you signed up for. Now, maybe you might decide not to be part of it. This is why. Think of it. If you’re just a cash office, isn’t your first visit more expensive than a second visit? Think of that for a moment. Why is that? The first visit has an exam, but here’s the issue we’ve been running into, and I know a lot of you on the East Coast, I’ve done seminars there up and down the East Coast from New York, down to Florida, that the plan says an acupuncture provider is not paid or may not even do an exam.

We’re running into this into New York quite a bit, and my answer to that is, excuse me, you’re saying an acupuncturist cannot perform an exam. Would that not be against. The rules of just engagement of a patient. Can you imagine the liability if a doctor said, oh, I didn’t examine them. I don’t care what’s wrong with them, I just treated them well, how could you treat someone without evaluating what is wrong and knowing what to do?

So there’s a lot of pushback on that. If that’s what you’re running into, please get part of your state association. Join us in fighting to say, excuse me. Of course it is part of your scope. In fact, what I’ll tell you is look at your scope of practice. Does your scope of practice indicate an evaluation?

I’m gonna guarantee it does, at least at some level, so therefore should be payable, so be careful. I think what’s happening is some payers are finding, hey, acupuncturists will just go away if we tell them no, we’ll just pay for treatment. We don’t wanna pay for an exam. My goodness. No. If you’re doing an exam.

It’s necessary. Of course, that’s payable why it takes time. It takes effort to do it, so make sure that you’re always pushing back. However, please be sure if you are billing for an exam, and I don’t care whether it’s cash or insurance. By the way, is there clearly more information and more details that would show this visit had a distinctive exam?

Keep in mind if you’re billing for an exam, there needs to be an exam above and beyond, just kind of like acupuncture, and we’ll talk more about this coming up in the first of the year, but how are you documenting it? How to make sure you’re avoiding anyone coming back, saying the services weren’t properly described.

Not hard, but there’s things you have to do. Have you ever had help with that? Have you ever understood it? Maybe not. That’s what we do with the network. It’s not just about practice and making more money, but making sure we’re compliant. All those factors, I want to help you with that. That’s what we do with the network.

We do the education. Come to a seminar first of the year, you know what’s happening. There’s updates to these e and m codes. Nothing major but enough that you want to be aware of. To know which code to properly choose, and there’s some additional codes that are updating as well. We always want you to be in the know.

The American Acupuncture Council is your partner. I’m your partner. Your success is ours, and I wish you well. We’re always gonna be there as a resource. Take a look at our website, there’s our phone number, come to our seminars. We’re here to help everyone go out and do well, and I wish you a really good New Year and prosperous new year.

Thank you.

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Disclaimer: The following is an actual transcript. We do our best to make sure the transcript is as accurate as possible, however, it may contain spelling or grammatical errors. Due to the unique language of acupuncture, there will be errors, so we suggest you watch the video while reading the transcript.

Greetings, everyone. The coding and billing expert is here. Sam Collins, the American Acupuncture Council is your partner in success. The network is the other step of that. How do we help you? We make sure you’re getting paid for what you’re doing, and I don’t care if it’s insurance, cash or otherwise. One of the things to get updated on, of course, is diagnosis.

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As you’re well aware, diagnosis actually update every year, but here’s a riddle for you. When do the 2024 diagnosis codes update? You’re thinking, actually they already did diagnosis codes always update on October 1st, the year prior. So really the answer to the riddle is the 2024 diagnosis began October 21st.

Of 2023. What’s important to note though, is yes codes update, but do the codes update that are important to us, meaning the ones that you use regularly. So let’s talk about that. Let’s go to the slides. Let’s talk about what is going on for 2024. In fact, right now, what’s happening with ICD 10? ICD 10 is our coding system.

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It’s what we use to communicate what’s wrong with our patients. Now, you might say, SI, I don’t bill insurance. I don’t need to know a code. You better know a diagnosis. Whether you’re putting the code down or the diagnosis, it should be accurate. So by example, if I were to say someone has neck pain, that would be okay.

What’s another way of communicating that, whether it be a super bill or a 1500 claim form is AM 54 2. realize every code is universal. That I don’t care if you’re in China, if you put M 54 2, they know you mean neck pain. So we always have to use coding to make sure we have the best and most appropriate coding for what is wrong with our patient.

Diagnosis matters. It really is. What is wrong with your patient? Now, some of you might say Sam, I can’t diagnose in my state. If that’s true, although I’ll say some of that’s not quite, someone comes in with pain. You can say they have pain. You’re not differentiating it, you’re just saying pain.

But what diagnosis is what’s wrong with the patient? Why are they there? Now, what I love about acupuncture is the simplicity, but the genius of the simplicity of acupuncture. What does the body always communicate when something is wrong? It always tells us one simple thing, I’m hurting. I’m in pain. I don’t care what you have.

Pain is always gonna be part of that, so keep it simple. Pain is gonna be fine. For the most part though, we can go beyond that. That’s not all what man? Acupuncturists treat lots of things. Like by example, if you’re treating with someone under the insurance eviCore, they’ll pay for strokes. They’ll pay for menopause, they’ll pay for anxiety, depression, anorexia.

So there’s a lot more beyond. Acupuncture now is being recognized to do much more than just pain management, though. Pain management is a very popular thing to do. It’s not all that you do. So have to remember when we’re talking about coverage. Coverage for some insurances may be limited to pain. But it can be, go beyond that.

Here’s a couple of offices that just put up signs in front, and here would be a thing I’d have for you is do people know what you do? Like I drive by an office that says acupuncture. Great. So when you just put that up, what are you expecting? That I know Something that no one’s ever taught me. I. You’re hoping.

So here’s two offices that let people know what they treat. Notice this one is fatigue, stress, tension, anxiety, depression, so on it goes all these conditions. The other one even indicating like Bell’s palsy, start to think of, we’ve gotta educate people what you do, regardless of how you’re getting paid, whether cash or otherwise.

We have to tell them what we do. And every one of these things has a diagnosis. So that way, even if you’re in all cash office, can I give them a Super Bowl with a diagnosis to make sure we can potentially get the best possible payment by example? Here’s for Aetna. This is Aetna current. This is gonna change after first of the year a little bit, but right now you can see this is what Aetna covers.

Now what’s really interesting here, you’ll notice it says these are the codes that Aetna covers if the selection criteria is met. But then it says, not all inclusive. You know what that’s really saying? These are the codes we pay for sure. There’s others, but we’re not gonna tell you. But I would say, look at this and start to pick up.

Notice it says Migraines. So it covers migraines, but if you notice, you dropped out other types of headaches as well. Then back pain, hip pain. In other words, I’ll tell you, they cover pain, but more than beyond that. So it’s a matter of knowing do I have the right code? Here’s what’s happening with ICD 10.

We have to know that diagnosis code has to reflect what we’re seeing. I would say the most common codes, pain symptoms and signs, they’re acceptable. Probably the best payable codes often, but we have to know. Wait a minute, Sam, you’re talking about an update. I know. I. So let’s talk about the updates. Every year there’s an update and as noted, the ones change for this year, October 1st.

Now, frankly, I will tell you I’m very acupunc centric when it comes to this. I really don’t care about things that acupuncturists don’t manage, treat or get paid for. So if you told me something about nephrology, I go that may be an issue, but I’m not gonna worry about that change ’cause it’s not a code I’m probably going to be using.

So this year there were a lot of updates. You’re thinking, wow. We have 73,000 diagnosis codes. Think about that. There’s that many conditions. Yep. Now, let’s be mindful though. How many do you commonly do? I’m gonna say most acupunctures probably code 10 to 15 things. And it’s because we see a lot of the same things, or you specialize.

So we have to make sure are the things that I treat changing. So there are 395 additions, 25 deletions. What has changed that I can see that might affect you? Here’s one. Migraine. It was first on the list for notice. Now we have codes that indicate chronic migraine. And I know you might be thinking, Sam, there’s always been a code for a chronic migraine.

No, there hasn’t. There actually has not. There’s been codes for migraines, never identified as chronic. Now, what does chronic.

Chronic mean. Honestly, from a pure coding standpoint, chronic means a condition that is lasting longer than you would expect for it normally to be gone, or probably in simplest terms, 12 weeks. So a person that’s had migraines off and on for 12 weeks or more. It’s probably chronic. In fact, I would make an argument that most people that get migraines, they’re probably recurrent.

So I’m gonna jump in and say maybe most migraines, unless this is the first time the person ever had it, is probably chronic to an extent. What I’m pointing out there is just a way of coding it. Are you paid for migraines? You bet you are. Now, can you code headache? Instead of migraine? No, I guess you could, but I want you to think for a moment.

Let’s talk about insurances like an As, H or others. If you’re requesting 12 visits for headache, I doubt they’re gonna give it to you. They’re gonna think, come on, it’s a regular headache. Treat ’em a few times. But what if you code a chronic migraine? Does that set up something a little different? Think of a person with simple back pain.

That’s how you say it’s back pain. But they actually have . Disc bulging with radiculopathy. That is painful, but is disc. Disc with radiculopathy more serious? That’s a patient probably gonna treat for months. Here’s the idea. Give me the code that best describes what’s going on with the patient. So is this a big deal?

No, but it’s one to add to your arsenal. How many of you have a common code list? How many of you have been to American Acupuncture Council? Our network seminars, we provide you with a list. Of all the codes that are payable by insurance and in fact that list is further divided into which insurances do pay for some, which ones don’t pay for some, a good way to look.

But nonetheless, this is added to the list. They’re definitely covered. What else has changed for this year? Remember last year, not any big changes, but the year before, remember the back pain code change and you had all that back and forth. I’m gonna give you a quick tip. If you are billing a Medicare Advantage plan.

And your coding back pain, which of course that’s what they cover. It must be M 54 51 or M 54 59. Do not ever use M 54 50 for back pain. When it comes to anything related to Medicare, and I’m not talking just regular Medicare Part B, but I’m talking the advantage plans that pay you directly. This year migraine codes changed, but notice this code for Parkinson’s.

You’re thinking, oh, come on Sam, Parkinson’s. I won’t say acupuncture treats Parkinson’s directly, but what do Parkinson’s patients often have? Painful and stiff joints. Back pain. So I would look at this as being a comorbidity. I’m not treating it directly, but a Parkinson with Parkinson’s may have more need for care.

I’m not saying treating Parkinson’s at all, and I’m not saying I’m really worried about this coach, but should you be aware, will a Parkinson’s patients have some different issues if you’re dealing with an ASH and you’re requesting extra visits. These type of comorbidities are actually what they pay attention to that, oh, I see why this person needs a little bit more.

What about osteoporosis? M 54 51 is a code that indicates back pain. That’s vert, progenic. Might a person with vertebral genic or osteoporosis be part of that? Here’s some new codes for that are gonna be related to the pelvis. Now, again, I’m pointing out, you’re going, Sam. Do I really care about these?

Probably not in the sense of directly, but indirectly. Think of you’re treating the human condition. If it’s manifesting with some pain. There’s always a way to do that. What I’m concerned about though is what were the changes this year? Migraine. So if you don’t have an UpToDate list, you may want to get one.

Come to the American Acupuncture Council, the network. If you’re part of our network, if you come to our seminars, you get it if you have malpractice through us. Thank you. Malpractice is separate. If you come to my seminar, it doesn’t give you malpractice coverage, so we wanna make sure you have the right codes.

In an up-to-date list of information this year, are there any earth shattering changes? No, I would say not, because it doesn’t change codes that you’re already existing, that you’re doing. It’s adding some. So make sure, do I have the right and proper ones to identify what’s going on and what if they’re coming in from someone else and bringing that diagnosis.

I gotta make sure I have an accurate diagnosis and one that’s payable by example. Cigna has a different list in Aetna, which is different from United, which is different from progressive or other types. So keep in mind, know your coding, know where your payment’s coming from, the AC, the network. We’re always here to help you, but here’s one that’s interesting.

This one may not help you much, but this will be a fun one. At parties, there’s a diagnosis for everything. Do you know there’s a diagnosis for being a bad parent? The parent that’s hovers over the person too much that’s always there and always interferes in their life. That’s actually AZ 62.1. I.

A parent who is never there is AZ 62.0. So you can in a way give a person a really bad, or I won’t say a compliment, say something bad about them without them knowing it. But here’s an interesting, whenever you ever have a friend or family member that works in a hospital and they come home and can be like, oh my God, in the emergency room last night, this person came in, you’re not gonna believe what they put inside their body.

There are diagnosis codes for foreign bodies entering a natural orifice. These are all new ones. They’re in the W section. I want everyone to just give me a moment to think. We have a code that talks about you’re putting a battery or a button bat. So a decel or a button battery. A plastic object, A bead, a coin, a toy, jewelry.

And here’s what I find interesting. There’s bottles. But here’s the, I just find glass or sharp glass. And I guess there is a difference. There could be, nons, sharpp, glass. Here’s my point. Coding can be fun. You ever wanna say something bad about someone? There’s a way of coding it. What I’ll point out is there’s codes for everything.

So if you’re seeing something, trust me, there’s a way to code it. What I’m concerned about, is it something that is under acupuncture’s purview? Is it something we get paid for? And if it is, we wanna know it. The American Acupuncture Council, as I said, is your partner. The network is always here to help with that.

I hope to see you at a future seminar. Come January or at any time, become a member. Let me be part of your staff. Go out and do well. I’m wishing you the best. Code changes for this year. Don’t start in 2024. They started in October. Make sure you update your list, everyone. Until next time, take care.

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Most of you’re gonna hear something starting now because the Medicare enrollment period begins October 15th and goes all the way through, I believe, December 7th.

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Disclaimer: The following is an actual transcript. We do our best to make sure the transcript is as accurate as possible, however, it may contain spelling or grammatical errors. Due to the unique language of acupuncture, there will be errors, so we suggest you watch the video while reading the transcript.

Hey, greetings everyone. It’s Sam Collins, your coding and billing expert for acupuncture, the American Acupuncture Council, and really to make sure you’re getting paid. What I wanna go over now is Medicare. There is still so much confusion. I do seminars. I travel the world for on behalf of acupuncture. I deal with so many different groups throughout the United States, and I get so many calls from network members that are asking.

Sam, my patient called me and says they have direct Medicare or what’s going on, what’s changed? And what I wanna do is hopefully clear up a lot of the confusion ’cause in fact, Most of you’re gonna hear something starting now because the Medicare enrollment period begins October 15th and goes all the way through, I believe, December 7th.

So you’re gonna see probably a lot of television ads and other things talking about acupuncture and Medicare Part C plans where I find they’re actually using the profession to help promote their own insurance. But then what is the difference of these? What is Medicare? How does it cover acupuncture? Is it different from when it started in 2020?

So let’s get into that. Let’s go to the slides, everyone. You’ll see here. I wanna talk about Medicare and acupuncture update Medicare, part B and C. Do not be confused. A lot of people hear the term Medicare and it realize it encompasses a lot of things. The two areas that focus for acupuncture though are part B and C.

Part A is for hospitals, nothing to do with us. Part D is for drugs. And then supplement policies don’t affect US either, so it’s part B and C, and most commonly people get part B automatically. When you turn Medicare age, but many people now are trading for these part C policy. So I wanna make sure we understand the differences.

’cause part B has not changed when it comes to what type of acupuncture coverage there is. Part B coverage is still limited to chronic low back pain and so forth. So the problem is though, this is the type of thing are your patients are seeing the public, they’re seeing ads like this that says Medicare now will cover acupuncture for chronic low back pain.

They call Medicare and they say, oh yes, you can get acupuncture. Not understanding the differences with regular Medicare Part B. Yes, there’s coverage, but there’s some obstacles or some hurdles to cover to make sure it’s covered. The one that’s a little bit simpler, of course, are the Medicare Advantage plans.

These are the Part C. In fact, I like to use this one ’cause this is taken off of an ad from television for a Medicare advantage plan for UnitedHealthcare. In this particular plan I look at this and I thought, wow, this insurance company is using acupuncture to promote the sell of their service.

They’re letting people know, Hey, come and join us. Don’t have regular Medicare and you can get acupuncture for a zero copay. Is that gonna be attractive to some people? I think so. So certainly wanna look at that. And just to keep in mind, part B is what people automatically get. But many people are trading for the Part C policies.

In fact, you can tell that because look it, there’s ads all over the tv. Here’s one for Clever Care, Medicare Advantage. It doesn’t even talk about acupuncture in this part of it, but it’s showing someone talking about dentists and see your doctor, but showing someone getting needle. And obviously there’s a big push.

A lot of people are recognizing, Hey, acupuncture can be helpful for me. Where do I go? How can I go and does my insurance pay for it? ’cause particularly a Medicare patient, generally gonna be on a fixed income though, could, some can be wealthy, they’re still fixed. They’re joining, they’re, they’ve got pensions, they’ve got retirement plans, they have social security.

So they’re certainly gonna pay with their pocketbook, meaning they’re gonna look to see if they have any coverage. So the confusion comes in when someone comes in. How do we identify them as a Medicare patient? I’ll make a real simple statement. You’ll know they’re a Medicare patient. If we’re over 65, everyone in the United States that is over 65 gets Medicare.

Whether you want it or not, you get it. Now, the part A is the automatic, the Part B you pay a little bit for, but everyone does it. And that’s the card on the left. This one here, you’ll see that’s regular standard Medicare Part B. Notice it’s A and B. The one on the right, this is an actual card from someone that is a Medicare Advantage plan, and you’ll know it as such because you’ll notice right on the card it indicates.

United Medicare, silver. There’s golds and so forth, but you’ll see that, but this one takes over. Don’t be confused when a person trades their policy for a Medicare advantage plan. They’re not gonna make them give back their regular Medicare card. So when someone comes in, always ask them If using, let me see all of your cards.

Because if they have one of these advantage cards, this regular Medicare is gone. They’ve traded for this, and I believe this year is gonna be the first year. Last year, about 48% of people I. Change to a Medicare advantage, Part C, whereas 52% were regular. I think this year is gonna be the tipping point.

’cause these plans just offer generally a little bit more generous benefit and frankly better for us. So let’s talk about regular original Medicare part B, regular Medicare Part B. As far as acupuncture coverage covers only chronic low back pain, which is defined as. Back pain over 90 days. That’s not too hard with an older person, certainly, but still something we have to have.

The bigger issue though, is this. The chronic low back pain can be treated by an acupuncturist, but it must be what they’ll say is under the adequate supervision of a medical provider. Now, I want to take back here, you’ll hear some people say direct supervision, and in many instances it will be direct, meaning you have to be in the same office.

However, adequate could mean . If the medical provider feels comfortable enough working with you, they may not be in the office at the time you’re delivering the acupuncture. The problem’s gonna be, it’s not a simple referral. They can’t just refer to you at another office. You have to be working in the same facility, whether they work in your office and make your office part of theirs, or you go to their office.

So this one makes it a little bit more complicated. It’s probably a little bit easier in this way because it can also be a nurse practitioner. Or a physician assistant who are a little bit more traveling, but you have to be working with them because they’re who are billing it. You’re not billing directly.

You’re gonna be working for them, whether as an employee or an independent contractor. Now, the good news is adequate supervision means you might be able to have an arrangement where maybe they’re in the office two days a week. And on days they’re not there with the prescription, you’re doing the acupuncture and they’re supervising remotely, if you will.

That can be allowed. So keep that in mind. But it is not a simple referral, so don’t get confused. The other thing is they require very specific diagnosis, and I apologize for the typo here. I did redo this short just a moment ago, but the diagnosis codes you’re required to have are M 54 51. Which is vertebral genetic back pain or M 54 59, which is other specified meaning specifying is chronic.

If you use M 54 50, it’s gonna be denied. So I have a lot of people going wait a minute. My claim was denied. The simple reason didn’t have the right code. They do not accept M 54 50. But again, that part B one’s a little more complicated. I do have several offices doing it now that have done quite well.

But you really have to get someone that’s a medical person that you can work with. Remember, it must be medical doctor. Physician assistant nurse practitioner. It can also be a certified nurse specialist. Those three, it cannot be a chiropractor or physical therapist. Now Medicare Advantage Plans. Part C plans are ones that people trade for and frankly, this is the one you can bill directly.

So don’t be confused. Part B, no direct billing by an acupuncturist. Part C. Plans advantage plans will allow you, in most instances that you can, they do have the same parameters of coverage. They cover for chronic low back pain, but many of them offer what we call routine acupuncture, which means they pay for pain management, and these you can directly bill.

In fact, in many instances, you don’t have to be in network. But just willing to provide the service. The one thing to keep in mind though, you will be subject to their fee schedule. If you choose to bill a Medicare advantage, you cannot balance bill your full fee, but the amount they allow, frankly, it’s gonna be a little bit more than Medicare, however, so that part I will say is good.

Now remember, not all Part C policies necessarily will have the additional routine acupuncture, which means direct billing. Most will, but always verify. What I can guarantee is they will all have the chronic low back pain supervised, but you’ll see that coming up. When I show you a little more direct policy.

Now what does Medicare actually pay? And I think this is where a lot of confusion Medicare will pay for three sets of acupuncture. I. The initial set, and this is gonna vary, this is why I have the variation in fees. This is gonna vary depending on where you’re located. Different states, different counties all have different fees, kinda like house prices.

But you can say on average the first set’s probably gonna be 40, though I’m putting 40 to 55 ’cause some states are higher, depending if it’s elector, acupuncture as well. And then the additional set is 30, but it can be as much as 40, again, depending on the area. So I’m gonna highlight that for three sets.

It’s roughly a hundred dollars a visit. Now that does indicate about a 40 minute visit, of course, but nonetheless, a hundred dollars. I think for a hundred dollars visit. I can make that work. It is not great. I’m not saying you’re getting paid thousands, but that’s not bad. Assuming 20 visits, that’s $2,000 per Medicare patient of reimbursement.

Not to mention the medical provider gets to bill for an exam or other services they may do for that patient, but your services would be paid at about a hundred per visit. Now, Medicare part C policy, and I apologize, this is a little bit small. This is UnitedHealthcare one and up here talking about what is covered.

They’re letting you know the same as Medicare. What’s the same 12 visits to start? Eight visits if it’s showing improvement for up to 20 for chronic low back pain. However, many of these plans don’t require and or direct referral because they’ll have, as you’ll see here, acupuncture, Medicare covered, and then they’ll talk about routine acupuncture, which means.

They cover for pain management, and I’m gonna say to you, the majority of these Medicare Advantage plans usually have that benefit. So you’re not gonna be limited to just low back pain only, but just about any condition so long as it’s painful. Keep in mind, however, for back pain though, they too will still require M 54 51.

M 54 59 to give you a good feel for it. Take a look here. It talks about acupuncture C P T codes that it covers, and you’ll see here, even dry needling, if you felt so inclined to do it, I wouldn’t. Dry needling doesn’t pay very well and I don’t think you’re doing that. You do an acupuncture, but the four acupuncture codes, and then it says here, common routine acupuncture codes, not a complete list.

So what I wanna highlight, this plan is noting that they’re not just gonna pay for the acupuncture, but they’re gonna pay for exams. The acupuncture codes. But then notice they’re listing several therapy codes. In other words, they’re gonna pay you within the scope of practice for common services that are payable under the plan.

On these plans, you can see sometimes some pretty generous reimbursements. I’m not gonna bring some of those up because it’s way beyond what you may are be billing, and I don’t want to entice that. But I’d say on average some pretty good pay. So take a look here for an Aetna patient, this is for three visits.

Three visits with two sets. They’re getting paid $234. It’s not bad. I would take that and the patient only has a $9 copay. Would you think a patient might be interested in that? I would. I think a patient would certainly be interested in coming in if they only to pay a $9 copay for three visits. In other words, three bucks a visit.

Here’s another one for Humana for a single visit, you’ll notice about 67, again, two sets, if there were a third set, probably would be a little bit higher. So would I say these are ones that are viable to you and ones you can directly build? Absolutely. But just be careful. Regular Medicare Part B has not changed.

We’re working on it. When I say we, we as a profession are working on getting acupuncturists fully into the Medicare system that you can register. Then once we can do that, we’ll have direct billing that’s gonna happen that just don’t know how soon, I’ve, I could say two years, five years. I really have no idea.

We have to see if we can get Congress to get together. Vote for a speaker, , and then we can start voting on some real bills. But nonetheless, I think this is a real positive. Think of the number of people who have Medicare now realize 10,000 people per day become Medicare eligible. I would certainly wanna let people know I’m out here.

’cause when you are looking at this type of plan that’s paying you at least a hundred, maybe even as much as 200, would that be something that could boost your office? What if you got five of these per month? And keep in mind with these, you do have to bill insurance. Is that a big deal though? In my opinion, no.

If I have an insurance that I know is gonna pay me, I can figure out how to bill. That’s not that hard. But I’m not gonna accept everything, so I want people that are doing cash. Don’t be beholden thinking because you take one plan. Like for instance, what if you say, Hey Sam, I’ll accept Humana and United, but I don’t take Blue Cross Medicare Advantage.

That’s your choice. Remember your choice to what you wanna bill is there, but keep in mind, it’s your choice. If the patients come in, they probably can have zero or very little copay on these cases, and again, can pay pretty decently. I would say look at what your cash price is. Anything that gets me up equivalent to that, that billing is simple and easy.

I’m all in. ’cause realize all of these plans will have portals where you’ll be able to bill electronically and so long as you do it through their company, it is going to be free. So I say, why not? So be aware. You’re gonna see a lot of this coming up because we’re in the enrollment period. Take a look at the commercials coming up.

They’re promoting your business. Let’s make sure we’re saying, Hey, you know what, we’re here and available here would be the thing though. How does someone know they even have benefits? Have you ever put anything out in your office that says, we accept Medicare or Medicare Advantage? Because otherwise they’re not gonna know.

I still think a lot of people don’t understand there’s even the benefit, so we wanted to start to do things to promotes that people know there’s access, and particularly for the plans, we know that are the good plans. As always, I’m here to help. We do seminars. By the way, what year is it right now?

It’s 2023 Sam, but what updated this month? Diagnosis codes. If you’ve not been to a seminar with me, you have a few coming up. You may want to get there to understand there’s been some coding changes, particularly for migraine headaches. Where will you know how, what fees to charge, the Medicare rates? All of that stuff is something we cover.

We do our network services. Just go over our website. We’re always there to help and I’ll bid you a due. Until next time, everyone, thanks so much. This is Sam Collins and I’m out. . .